2009 December 21 - Plea for feedback

[FadedOasis]

Now that the free-play-weekend is over and people are calming down from the update, I want some feedback on the new maps.

How do you feel about:

• ctf_spacebase_b1a
  
• cp_furnace_b4
  
• plr_rollout_a1
  
• koth_lighthouse_rc5
  
• ctf_doublecross
  
• cp_gorge
  

[Billy, Angel of Wrath]

Spacebase- Playable, but not great.
Furnace- Awesome.
Rollout- Pretty good, looking forward to a finished version.
lighthouse- Lots of fun.
doublecross- Okay. One of the better CTF maps, in my opinion.
gorge- Undecided. Its good right now, but I have a feeling I'll tire of it quickly.

[docsfox]

I've only played three of these so I'll only comment on those.

koth_lighthouse_rc5 - awkward layout and point placement. it's weird but playable. I'm not a fan though.

ctf_doublecross - spamfest with a little bit of sentry spam that hasn't been take advantage of yet that will make it even worse. Not new as far as ctf goes however. playable but I'm not a fan.

cp_gorge - Feels like one stage of cp_castle. I like castle though so this is welcome. I wish it were more than one stage though because rounds could end quickly if people aren't paying attention. I'm a fan. <3

[phevnil]

ctf_spacebase_b1a- Have not played it yet.
cp_furnace_b4- Have not played it yet.
plr_rollout_a1- Have not played it yet.
koth_lighthouse_rc5- Enjoyable with lower numbers. Still playable with full teams.
ctf_doublecross- I, personally, enjoy this map. Although, I think once engineer and sniper players start switching off Demo and Soldier it may be ruined. I still like it.
cp_gorge- Like Gravelpit, but with only one choice of where to go. Enjoyable in all numbers of players (like gravelpit).

[Whatsit]

• ctf_doublecross
  
• cp_gorge
  

I enjoy both of these. cp_gorge especially since it's the only A/D map I can think of that doesn't take upwards of 60 minutes to run both teams through.
I haven't played any of the other maps more than once each so I have no real opinion on them.

[rhench]

ctf_spacebase_b1a: Being CTF gives it one strike against already in my worldview. This map is large, full of easily camped hallways, and is asymmetrical, making it confusing, especially because a lot of the corridors look the same. Very little vertical space throughout most of the level makes Soldiers feel cramped, and quick corners along with the large size of map means that once the intelligence is out of your room, it's more or less a lost cause. It's not a bear to play on, but it's more or less tdm (team deathmatch). Overall vote: No, thanks.

cp_furnace_b4: My main experience on this is as a sword/targe demo, and though it was hilariously fun, that may be due to some faults in the map, rather than features. A and B both have severe problems that an organized defense can seriously capitalize on. A lot of the space around A is pointless, as holding it gives very little tactical advantage save perhaps access to healthkits, A is on a plateau that can't easily be taken from a smart demo (especially one virtually immune to blast damage), and B is in a hole that a Soldier or sticky-wielding demo can spam with impunity. Some fun spy antics can happen at B, as well. Not bad, overall, but a lack of emphasis on vertical space makes me feel like it lacks something useful. C is alright, but the spawn seems unnecessarily close to the point. My vote: Group 3, as a replacement for some more painful map or a question mark.

plr_rollout_a1: Looks like it has a lot of potential. Textures will come with time, as will refining elements. I like the way several of the maps look, but there are some issues with spawn rooms too near to cap points and glitches (BLU cart refused to move at one point, regardless of people around it). My vote: keep getting the updates, this could be a winner, as it's even fun to play in alpha state.

koth_lighthouse_rc5: Super cramped, almost feels like it should be arena instead of koth. May have something to do with the surfeit of demos and soldiers jumping around, though. It's not bad for a non-Valve koth, but I'd take any of the standard ones over it in an instant. My vote: one of the 3x maps.

ctf_doublecross: It's hard to do this without comparing it to similar maps, but I'll try. There's a lot of unnecessary dead ends that have no tactical value other than an out of the way teleporter or somesuch, which makes the map confusing. The sewer path is a good idea, but it comes out in almost the same door that the bridge leads to, making it useless to avoid sentry nests or anything, really. Especially with the changes to CTF such that a map will go on until a cap is made during overtime, my vote is: Emphatically No.

cp_gorge: A two-point CP map? It's kind of weird, but I don't really have any issues with it. Could be a good map to help get the server going, and it doesn't really overcrowd with a full team, either. Might be worth looking into as a starting map if it grows in popularity. My vote: Why the hell not?

[FadedOasis]

Dec 21, 2009 18:44:24 GMT -5 Whatsit said:

cp_gorge especially since it's the only A/D map I can think of that doesn't take upwards of 60 minutes to run both teams through.

I believe Gravel Pit takes 22 minutes maximum. :-)

[scrambles]

• ctf_spacebase_b1a C.
  I know for one that I load the map weird and half the textures in that map show up as error. Also it's confusing to navigate.
  
• cp_furnace_b4 C- It's like gravelpit's slow cousin
  
• plr_rollout_a1 A. I sense great potential in this one
  
• koth_lighthouse_rc5 B.
  It's a small KOTH map, so gameplay usually degrades to a kill-fest as opposed to KOTH, but there is nothing wrong with that.
  
• ctf_doublecross D.
  Besides it being CTF, it's just a better looking 2fort.
  
• cp_gorge B+.
  Once the solly demo spam fest cools down, I'm sure it will be a good map
  

[Whatsit]

Dec 21, 2009 18:53:06 GMT -5 rhench said:

There's a lot of unnecessary dead ends that have no tactical value other than an out of the way teleporter or somesuch, which makes the map confusing.

That's what I thought at first too, but the dead ends aren't actually dead ends. The one in the sewer has a trapdoor that lets the defending team drop down, The one at the end of the sewer has a ledge to drop down from near the flag room or rocket jump up, and the one behind the flag room provides a one-way passage to the flag room for most classes, and an escape route with the flag for soldier/demo/scout.
So the map is altogether quite open to those three classes, unfortunately that makes the other classes pretty well useless except for defense.

[rhench]

You'll have to show me the trapdoor. I knew about the ledge and the flag area, but that is news to me.

[phevnil]

I think, it is not so much a trapdoor as an open pit, but it provides a second route in for Demo/Soli and a quick way to ambush sewer pushes.

[Jeziah]

I like ctf_doublecross and cp_gorge, but I haven't played any of the other maps yet. Although I think I remember an arena_lighthouse... If this is just the KotH version, then I'm probably gonna like it

[brianblack]

ctf_spacebase_b1a - The only real recollection I have of this map is when my wife was hilariously playing heavy. I'd have to agree with rhench though that a good bit of the map is very similar looking, which caused a good deal of confusion for my poor wife. I like to know where I am in a map without backtracking in my head, this is part of the reason why I don't particularly like cp_stag.

cp_furnace_b4 - Don't think I've played this one yet, I'll try to nom-nominate it tonight.

plr_rollout_a1 - I'm very enthusiastic about this map. It's got a clever concept that's executed relatively well. The 'center' map particularly has the carts out of each other's field of view in the center, which (currently) forces one of the two tactics: ignore the enemy cart until it's in view of your spawn, or have everyone but one person ignore your own cart. The two 'side' maps have very dynamic slopes which can cause some interesting fights, but the side routes are so easy to ignore currently that an engy can set up right outside the 'defending' team's spawn. Maybe that would be something to fix during texturing? As I've said before, I'd really like to follow the evolution of this map. As someone put it (sora, maybe?) where's the intel?

koth_lighthouse_rc5 - I think part of my issue with this map is that if a team is even slightly unbalanced, you end up fighting an uphill battle RIGHT OUTSIDE YOUR SPAWN. I'd love to see an engy get set up at the top of the hill. Instant win. There's lots of verticality in the map, but it always feels like you aren't supposed to do anything with it. For example, around the point, you can rocket jump onto the lighthouse sides, or the houses, but since everyone's already looking up from coming from their spawns, it really doesn't give you any kind of 'surprise' time.

ctf_doublecross - My initial perception was similar to rhench, that there weren't a lot of paths to the intel, and that the dead ends made maneuvering around the map difficult. I agree with docs that sentries in specific locations will choke down the entire map, but that's common to any ctf.

cp_gorge - The majority of my playtime on this map has been during the flood of demo/soldier crazies. I think this is a good server builder, it expands to fit groups of 4 each to groups of 10 each.

[.: sora]

• ctf_spacebase_b1a: Nothx. A touch too uninspired and linear for my tastes, too strongly favoring some class choices over others.
  
• cp_furnace_b4: Haven't played it.
  
• plr_rollout_a1: Interesting concept. Alpha is the only thing that makes it borderline, leaning toward yes.
  
• koth_lighthouse_rc5: Not bad.
  
• ctf_doublecross: Will be more interesting when people learn they can go below mid. I enjoy CTF, but this map is mediocre at best.
  
• cp_gorge: Fo sho.
  

[pneuma08]

• ctf_spacebase_b1a: I did actually enjoy the time I spent with this map. I have no major problems with it. (I didn't even find the layout particularly confusing.)
  
• cp_furnace_b4: N/A
  
• plr_rollout_a1: I played this once with something like 3 other people. It was curious but I'd have to try it again with more to really get a feel for it.
  
• koth_lighthouse_rc5: Meh. It's alright, but could be better. It probably would be a good no-spawn-time deathfest map.
  
• ctf_doublecross:The last and only time I played this it was an engie camp-fest. Snooze-worthy. Might be better under different circumstances, but it seems mighty choke-laden. It feels like they were trying to make a better 2fort and only got so far. A step in the right direction but still nowhere near as good many others. Maybe it'll get better as people prod out the secret and secondary passages.
  
• cp_gorge: N/A
  

[rhench]

Dec 22, 2009 17:41:38 GMT -5 pneuma08 said:

Maybe it'll get better as people prod out the secret and secondary passages.

Maybe you'll get better as I prod your secret and secondary passages!

[Whatsit]

Dec 22, 2009 3:33:43 GMT -5 rhench said:

You'll have to show me the trapdoor. I knew about the ledge and the flag area, but that is news to me.

I'm jus ttalking about the trapdoor in the spawn room.

[brianblack]

cp_furnace - Stepping aside the gravelpit2.0 hailers for a moment, I thought point A was very original. It was almost labyrinthine at ground level, but RJ classes had lots of opportunities to get a better view of the field and the point. I didn't think B was very interesting on defense, until I realized that there was a third level that could shoot down on the point while playing offense. C - There's no contest, it's a smaller version of gravelpit's C point.

I'd play it as an interesting alternative to gravelpit.

ctf_doublecross - I know that there are plenty of routes, but the problem is that the only classes that can get there are rj (or FaN) classes. Maybe it's a prelude to the engy update! He gets a trampoline instead of a teleporter! I would use it.

[strata]

# ctf_spacebase_b1a
Too many hallways. I hate hallways.

# cp_furnace_b4
I haven't played this one yet.

# plr_rollout_a1
I like it, it's pretty fun and simple and the levels aren't overly long.

# koth_lighthouse_rc5
Fun for what I've played of it but I haven't played a lot.

# ctf_doublecross
It's probably one of the best ctf maps I've played tbh. Though I may take that back as engineers learn it's best sentry spots.

# cp_gorge
I like it because it's a nice short A/D map when the others are so long. Thats why it ticks me off when people vote to extend it.